Attorney Aaron Siri takes on former FDA commissioner: Setting the record straight on RFK Jr and vaccines

Can Dr. Gottlieb be taken at his word?

In an interview with CNBC, Pfizer board member and former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb said that he believes Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., in his upcoming position as head of the HHS, will set back the progress made on eliminating childhood illnesses with vaccines and will be responsible for an upsurge in deaths. 

RFK Jr is on record questioning the safety of the vaccines and demanding that proper safety studies, with inert placebos, be conducted. Opponents have claimed that he is an “anti-vaxxer” who will eliminate vaccines and bring us back to the “dark ages” of children’s deaths from “vaccine-preventable” diseases. 

Speaking on CNBC’s Squawk Box (see clip below), Gottlieb said he doesn’t believe President-elect Trump wants to see a resurgence of measles, whooping, cough, or polio in this country and that RFK Jr “will cost lives in this country if he follows through on his intentions."

Aaron Siri responds

‍ICAN (Informed Consent Action Network) lawyer Aaron Siri was quick to tweet his response (below) to Gottlieb's assertions, pointing out each “fact” that Gottlieb was wrong about.

Dr. Gold weighs in

Dr. Simone Gold, founder and president of America's Frontline Doctors, responded to Siri's tweet, expressing shock that Gottlieb, lacking " a fundamental understanding on so many medical matters," had ever been Commissioner of the FDA. She also expressed outrage that he would attack RFK Jr to further his own financial interests as a Pfizer Board member.

Siri vs Gottlieb

‍Measles, Mumps, and Rubella vaccine:

Gottlieb's claim: The MMR vaccine was reformulated to remove some preservatives.

Siri's response: No preservatives were removed from the MMR vaccine.

Your claim that in “early 2000s … FDA reformulate[d] the existing MMR vaccine to take some of the preservatives out,” is false. Never happened. You are likely thinking about the removal of thimerosal in the early 2000s from various vaccines but as even CDC explains, “Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal.” 

Gottlieb's claim:  Children cannot get vaccinated for MMR before two years of age.

Siri's response: Children get vaccinated for MMR starting at one year of age or earlier.

Your claim that a child “can’t get vaccinated [for MMR] until age 2” is simply false. MMR is routinely given at one year of age and sometimes even earlier. 

Gottlieb's claim (quote from video): “For every 1,000 cases of measles in this country there will be one death.”

Siri's response: Measles mortality declined by about 98% in the U.S. before the first measles vaccine was introduced to about 1 death in every 500,000 Americans.

Your claim regarding measles mortality is based on dubious and unreliable data and ignores the facts that (1) approximately 400 people total died annually in the U.S. in the years before the first measles vaccine in 1963 (amounting to around 1 death for every 500,000 Americans), and (2) mortality from measles declined by over 98% from 1900 to 1960 before the vaccine and was continuing to decline. 

The Gold Report previously wrote about the decline of measles morbidity and mortality in the U.S. supporting Siri's claims.

[T]his graph from Child Health Safety shows that deaths from measles and other childhood diseases had dropped nearly 95% before vaccines were rolled out. This also held for diseases such as scarlet fever and typhoid, for which no vaccines exist.

As apparent from the CDC’s chart below, measles outbreaks are cyclical and this year’s outbreaks are, so far, nothing to write home about. After the high number of cases in 2019, there were virtually no measles cases in 2020. Even with the 1274 cases in the U.S. in 2019, given the U.S. population of 328,239,523, the case rate was 0.0000004, way below one percent.

While measles may be considered to be quite contagious, the mortality rate is virtually zero in developed countries, such as the U.S.. The U.S. mortality rate vs case rate is shown in Our World in Data’s interactive graph below. For 2015 the mortality rate was shown as <0.01. The last measles death in the U.S. was in 2015 when a woman on immunosuppressant drugs contracted the disease and subsequently died of pneumonia. Before 2015, the last reported measles death was in 2003.

Pertussis (whooping cough)

Gottlieb's claim (quote from video): "I don’t think the president wants to see a resurgence of . . . whooping cough in this country . . . "

Siri's response: The vaccine only eliminates symptoms, but not the ability to colonize the bacteria and transmit the infection to others. [This means that a vaccinated child or adult will not know they are infected and can unwittingly infect others, including infants and the immunocompromised.] 

Your claims regarding pertussis vaccines nonsensically ignore the fact that these products do not prevent transmission of the pertussis bacteria – they only provide, at best, personal protection. As a recent consensus paper of industry pertussis vaccine “experts” explained, “aPVs [pertussis vaccine] … cannot avoid infection and transmission. … aPV pertussis vaccines do not prevent colonization. Consequently, they do not reduce the circulation of B. pertussis and do not exert any herd immunity effect.” 

Polio

Gottlieb's claim (quote from video): “G-d forbid we have cases of polio in this country.”

‍Siri's response: The last wild polio case in the U.S. was in 1979. The inactivated polio vaccine used today does not prevent transmission of wild polio; at best it affords personal protection.

Your claims regarding polio nonsensically ignore the fact that the last wild case of polio in the U.S. was in 1979 and that the only polio vaccine used in the U.S. for the last 24 years only provides, at best, personal protection and does not prevent transmission of the polio virus. As CDC explains: “IPV [inactivated polio vaccine] … does not stop transmission of the virus.” 

RFK Jr.

Gottlieb's claim: RFK Jr will cost lives in this country if he follows through on his intentions.

Siri's response: RFK Jr. said he has no intention of removing vaccines from anyone who wants them.

In any event, you dutifully ignore the fact that RFK Jr. has made clear he has no intention of taking away vaccines from anyone who wants them. 

Siri challenges Gottlieb to have a debate

‍You claim RFK Jr. will cost lives, but I would argue that ignorance regarding vaccine products does and has cost lives. I welcome a public debate in which we can discuss the number of lives ignorance about vaccines has cost versus your speculations about those RFK Jr. will supposedly cause (a man who has actually devoted his life to saving the lives of children).

RfK Jr — in his own words

RFK Jr. addressed the question of vaccines in a News Nation Town Hall which Chief Nerd tweeted, below. He explained that none of the dozens of vaccines on the schedule have been properly trialed for safety.

(@2:15) Of the 72 vaccine doses now mandated, essentially recommended, but they’re really mandated, not one of them has ever been subjected to a pre-licensing placebo control trial. 

RfK Jr explained that following a meeting with Dr. Fauci who could not provide him with documentation regarding the placebo-controlled trials he claimed to have. he sued HHS for records regarding pre-licensing placebo-controlled trials for children’s vaccines. The HHS came back and said they didn’t have any; the response from HHS can be found on CHD’s website.

He pointed out that since vaccine manufacturers have paid criminal penalties for lying and fraud, they can’t be trusted. I’m not anti-vaccine, he declared, and you should be able to take one if you want to, but we need good science. 

 (@9:50)The four companies that make vaccines in this country, Merck, Sanofi, Glaxo, and Pfizer have paid over $35 billion in criminal penalties over the past decade for lying to doctors, for falsifying science, for defrauding regulators. . . . We can’t just trust them . . . We need to have actual science on it. . . . I don’t want to get rid of vaccines. If you want to take a vaccine you should be able to do it. We need good science. That’s all I’ve asked for. (Emphasis added.)

Gottlieb ignorant?

Siri: Children’s health got worse while he was FDA commissioner. Lacking basic knowledge of the topics, he is certainly not qualified to speak with Senators to dissuade them from confirming RFK Jr as head of HHS.

‍Your knowledge regarding these products is only matched by your track record as a public “health” official. The plummeting decline in childhood health from the early 1980s (from less than 13% with chronic disease to now well over 50%) continued unabated while you were FDA commissioner. Respectfully, you lack authority or a track record, let alone basic knowledge, to speak on the subjects you address in this interview (let alone to discuss this topic with Senators to dissuade them from confirming RFK Jr.)

Pfizer 

Conflict of Interest

Gottlieb's claim: Pfizer (in which Gottlieb serves as a board member) doesn’t make children’s vaccines

Siri's response: Pfizer makes COVID-19, Prevnar, and RSV vaccines [all of which are on the children’s vaccine schedule].

If you were being honest, you would reveal that your real concern, as a board member of Pfizer, is that Pfizer's golden gooses – Covid-19 vaccines, Prevnar vaccines, RSV vaccines, etc. – will have to face the reality of the devastating harms they have caused to families across America. Your interview stinks of self-interest. The time for selling out America's children so pharma and its leaders, like you, can line their pockets has come to an end.

Who is Dr. Scott Gottlieb?

Dr. Scott Gottlieb is cited as a key figure in the revolving door between the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry. (See the picture below from Kanekoa the Great's tweet in which he noted that "[b]etween 2006 and 2019, 9 out of 10 FDA commissioners went to work for the pharmaceutical companies they were in charge of regulating.")

His career has spanned multiple roles, both within government and the private sector, reflecting his deep involvement in healthcare policy and industry. He has worked as a financial analyst tracking healthcare trends, participated in various healthcare ventures, and held numerous positions within the FDA and Medicare/Medicaid.

Gottlieb's roles have included serving as Senior Advisor to the FDA Commissioner and the Director of Medical Policy Development (2002–2003), Senior Advisor to the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) in 2003, Deputy Commissioner for Medical and Scientific Affairs at the FDA from 2005 to 2007, and Commissioner of the FDA from 2017 to 2019. He currently serves on the board of Pfizer, a position that aligns with his long-standing connections to the pharmaceutical industry, and, as Aaron Siri argued, likely reflects his interest in the continued profitability of vaccine products.

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